Another excellent video from Humane Hancock about veganism and wild animal suffering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG6TNgFGRck
It is amazing to see those questions discussed widely! We should really stop committing the appeal to nature fallacy when we are the first to (rightly!) criticize it when non-vegans use it to justify animal farming.
@Sandra Yes I know it shocked me too... I'm pretty sure he knows spiders are not insects and he meant arthropods instead.
It's a bit annoying because in this context "insect" is often used as a metonymy for a category meaning more or less arthropods, just for historical reasons (it's a bad habit), not from ignorance. But I agree it sounds cringy.
@Sandra Oh no it's absolutely a serious argument (and I 100% agree with it). It's a natural consequence of being serious about antispeciesism and the idea that what morally matters is the well-being of individuals. If you dig, concerns for protecting nature as it is instead of improving the living conditions of animals are usually supported by speciesist or anthropocentric concepts. For example, I also like seeing nature around me and walking in the forest. But basing my ethics around this would be very selfish. For me ethics is not about protecting what I like, it's about reducing suffering.
Most people, even most vegans I talk to would completely agree with you, which is why I shared this video. But it's always really difficult to change people's minds.
@Sandra What do you think is wrong with individualism (in this particular sense of placing terminal value in the well-being of individuals)? What do you think our terminal values should be?
We all agree that systems as a whole are extremely important, but not in the same way: I (and Humane Hancock) think they are *instrumentally* important, but not *terminally*. They matter because of the effect they have on individuals, not in themselves.
@guillaume The terminal/instrumental distinction is exactly it, except we have them reversed. I’m on a cosmic trip♥♥
The Universe ftw! I’m just instrumentally important to it. That’s not the same as being unimportant.
But it’s a question of what is cart and what is horse, and I’m sure you agree that that’s the question but not about what is the answer ☺
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